Challenging Religion!

old man emu

Well-Known Member
#2
Actually, he's quite correct. Until the message of Jesus was worked on in the early Christian era, nearly every human society from Early Man to the present, believed that after death, a man's spirit went to a place where the cares and woes of earthly existence did not exist. In most cases, this afterlife place was in the sky, as going to the sky for mortal man was not possible. However, some societies went to the underworld for their afterlife (Greeks, Vikings). Some societies had a stop-over place where a person could atone for their misdeeds, but they did not stay there for eternity.

It was only the Christians who developed the idea of a place of eternal damnation. They called it Hell. Hell is viewed by most Abrahamic traditions Judaism, Christian, Islam) as a place of or a form of punishment. The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead). Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[1] (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna). In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[1] Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).[2] In Jewish Rabbinic literature, and Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked.[3] This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible usually translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.

OME
 
#5
Actually, he's quite correct. Until the message of Jesus was worked on in the early Christian era, nearly every human society from Early Man to the present, believed that after death, a man's spirit went to a place where the cares and woes of earthly existence did not exist. In most cases, this afterlife place was in the sky, as going to the sky for mortal man was not possible. However, some societies went to the underworld for their afterlife (Greeks, Vikings). Some societies had a stop-over place where a person could atone for their misdeeds, but they did not stay there for eternity.

It was only the Christians who developed the idea of a place of eternal damnation. They called it Hell. Hell is viewed by most Abrahamic traditions Judaism, Christian, Islam) as a place of or a form of punishment. The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead). Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[1] (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna). In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[1] Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).[2] In Jewish Rabbinic literature, and Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked.[3] This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible usually translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.

OME
My name is Alan Finch. I became a Christian 42 years agi,

“WOW,” I was taught and believed that multitudes upon multitudes of humans will suffer “eternal torment” for 100 trillion years, and then another 100 trillion years, and then another 100 trillion years, and it goes on and on with no hope of it ever ending. I am certain that each one of us, deep inside of our very being, know that something just does not add up concerning this picture, but we just can't quite figure out what is it that we are not understanding correctly.

The true biblical teaching is neither the traditional Christian view of hell, nor the view of annihilation. Our great God is neither a great torturer nor a great annihilator, but He is the great Saviour of the world.

The mystery of the finished work of Christ on the Cross will one day reveal the perfect plan of God for the entire human race, which does not include “eternal torment” or “eternal annihilation” for one single person!

I have written upon this topic, but it is much too lengthy to post on this site. Below is a sample. If anyone would like a copy in it's original Word Document Format, feel free to e-mail me and request a copy, and I will e-mail you a copy.

candy33alan@aol.com

………. What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ? ……….
(Re-examining the widely held belief of “eternal torment” in “Hellfire”)

There are some Biblical topics which in order to get a better and clearer understanding of require a lengthy Biblical explanation. This Biblical topic is certainly one of them. After all, there is certainly NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT than “our eternal purpose” & “our eternal destination!” Therefore, it is of the utmost importance for us to have a better and clearer Biblical understanding concerning this most important topic.

My purpose for this writing is to Biblically “expound” upon (1) is there really going to be “eternal torment?” (2) is there really going to be “eternal annihilation?” (3) to give a Biblical answer to the question “If there is no “eternal torment,” and if there is no “eternal annihilation” of our very being, then what are we being saved from, and what is our being here during this present time on earth really all about?”

I was a Christian for 38 years before I gained a better “Scriptural” understanding of some Biblical truths that I had not properly understood in regards to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
 

Marty_d

Well-Known Member
#6
...or, we just die and that's it. I didn't experience anything before my brain got to a certain level of development in the womb, and I'm pretty sure I won't experience anything after I die.

Pretty simple really. No need to invent gods, afterlife of any sort, or any other superstitious rubbish. It's only our gigantic egos which would invent an afterlife for one species out of the millions which have inhabited this planet.
 

willedoo

Well-Known Member
#9
Marty, I think it would be great to have a paradise like afterlife. I'm sure if there was a heaven, I'd have unlimited beer, and finally find KM-14,17,18,24 and 36 oxygen masks, also a ZSh-1, ZSh-2 and ShLO-50 helmet. And I guess a VKK-1 partial pressure suit. That would top it off for me. I'm not interested in harps.

But I suspect it's like every time I've been anaesthetized for an op. One minute they give you the needle, next thing they are wheeling you out. An hour might have gone by but it seems like an instant. No dreams, just a big blank. I'm tipping that's what it's like to be dead, but if I'm right, I'll never know I'm right.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#11
One of the main reasons I gave up on it is the caliber of some of the people who think they are going there. They are not ALL bad but on average.... er how dose one say it. "Looking after themselves" and let's say I prefer more open minded company. when I get in deep discussion.. Anyhow there's literally a ton of different religions many of whom would kill me for not believing as they do. .That strikes me as a bit unfriendly and uncivilized..Nev
 

willedoo

Well-Known Member
#12
There's a few things I could never figure out about it. For a start, God created the Universe and everything we know in the space of a week. That's an enormous power, more powerful than anything. But his power must be limited or he could have just snapped his fingers and created it instantaneously.
It took him a few days, so whether that was the logistics of pumping out a certain quota of galaxies per day, or the fact that it took him a week to decide on a final format, we'll never know.

Either way, he had the power to build the universe. If he had the power to do that, logic tells us mere mortals that he would have the power to stop his earthly representatives from molesting children. Also, in theory, he should be able to stop wars, disease, and change a world where the animal inhabitants kill and eat each other. After all, that should be a walk in the park for someone who can make everything.

So here's some theories:

A. He was so worn out after making the universe that he had a heart attack and died, thus having no power or influence over what happened later.

B. He made all this stuff, and then was just over it and couldn't give a rats about what we did with it.

C. He didn't make anything at all, and in fact doesn't exist.
 

octave

Well-Known Member
#13
So according to my Christian friends God, who is perfect, made everything but somehow it became imperfect and the only option he had (because causing hideous suffering by drowning everything on earth) was to allow his son to be tortured and killed, so that HE could forgive the very people HE created seems pretty irrational to me. I would love a Christian, and I have asked many, to explain this to me and I have never had a reasonable explanation. I consider myself a good Dad a NOTHING would make me become so perverted and bloodthirsty as to allow any harm to happen to him. Sorry but god is the worst father ever.
 

Marty_d

Well-Known Member
#14
And what about the devil? Where'd he come from? Oh... fallen angel. So... did god create him knowingly flawed (which therefore means the fault lies with god) or did he create him perfect and he became evil all by himself (in which case god is not omnipotent)?
Sorry, but when I read a book I want it to have a good plot and believable characters.
 

Marty_d

Well-Known Member
#15
So according to my Christian friends God, who is perfect, made everything but somehow it became imperfect and the only option he had (because causing hideous suffering by drowning everything on earth) was to allow his son to be tortured and killed, so that HE could forgive the very people HE created seems pretty irrational to me. I would love a Christian, and I have asked many, to explain this to me and I have never had a reasonable explanation. I consider myself a good Dad a NOTHING would make me become so perverted and bloodthirsty as to allow any harm to happen to him. Sorry but god is the worst father ever.
Don't forget, he's got form - he wanted Abraham to kill his son too. And he killed all the firstborn children of the Egyptians.
 

facthunter

Well-Known Member
#16
The Christians blamed the Jews for killing the son of God (JC). if God sent his only son (JC) to die on the cross and atone for all of our (collective) sins then this was all preplanned so the jews cannot be responsible.. JC was obviously not convinced of the way this was supposed to work because, as one could understand, being up there on the cross with a couple of ordinary bad guys beside him with a crown of thorns and vinegar for refreshment wasn't fun at all and, accused GOD of forsaking him. and asked why he had done that.. Nev
 
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