green power solar is

red750

Well-Known Member
Apparently the early roadster model Tesla had V2G. Elon Musk was asked if it was possible, and replied that they might revisit it. The idea of V2V technology may also be examined, so if someone runs out of charge away from a charging station, they could "borrow" enough power from another car to get to a charging station.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
Octave
"This is unlike the system now where feeding power back to the grid is at a set price"
Set by whoever owns that piece of equipment on your wall, Sealed so consumers can't alter their remuneration.
I have never seen or heard of a electricity meter owned & operated by any consumer, Large or domestic.
They have the power. and governments pay homage to those that wield power.
Their new trick is the SMART meter !, WI FI connected to Your NBN, so they don't even pay the meter-reader. Paperless, to save Their money on your bill.
AND still the cost goes forever up, up & away.
WHO's going to pay for the removal of all the obsolescent wires and boxes on all the house walls. Telstra . OPTUS, I don't think they've even given it a thought.
I like advancement, as long as it doesn't cost me dearly.
spacesailor
 

octave

Well-Known Member
Octave
"This is unlike the system now where feeding power back to the grid is at a set price"
Set by whoever owns that piece of equipment on your wall, Sealed so consumers can't alter their remuneration.
I have never seen or heard of a electricity meter owned & operated by any consumer, Large or domestic.
They have the power. and governments pay homage to those that wield power.
Their new trick is the SMART meter !, WI FI connected to Your NBN, so they don't even pay the meter-reader. Paperless, to save Their money on your bill.
AND still the cost goes forever up, up & away.
WHO's going to pay for the removal of all the obsolescent wires and boxes on all the house walls. Telstra . OPTUS, I don't think they've even given it a thought.
I like advancement, as long as it doesn't cost me dearly.
spacesailor
Space if you really look into it, these things are being worked on, It is easy to think these things are pie in the sky and maybe ev to grid will not be the way we go however who would have thought 25 years ago that billions of computers around the world would be connected and that we could communicate so effortlessly. Your argument seems to be this, "I can not imagine how software could control the flow of power and scheduling and pricing, therefore it sounds like nonsense".

When you say you "like advancement as long as it doesn't cost you dearly" ev to grid would not be compulsory you know, you would not be forced to sell your vehicle power to the grid.

Anyone who is genuinely interested in this subject more than just "I reckon its cool" or "nah that will never work", here is a study. Now, this study is not a ringing endorsement, it points out pros and cons It is quite detailed and I am still working my way through it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517307619

I guess time will tell, we will see what happens. My prediction is that EVs will continue to increase market share over the next few years. Smart grids will get smarter, technology will improve exactly like other technologies. Who doesn't remember the first enormous mobile phones, too expensive for all but the richest same with PCs.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.
Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI
And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.
Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.
All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.
I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.
spacesailor
 

octave

Well-Known Member
BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.
Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI
And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.
Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.
All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.
I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.
spacesailor

space did you watch the video?


What is being proposed is this You come home from work, you don't want to charge your car until the off-peak period but your daily travel has left you with extra capacity. You then via your vehicle allow some power to go to the grid when the price being offered is acceptable to you. if the price being offered is not satisfactory then it does not happen. Whilst at the moment I think there are only a few pilot systems running if people like it and it works then it will become more common. The comparison with solar feedback tariffs is erroneous. People bought solar panels their only purpose is to sell electricity back to the grid, therefore, the price you get paid is very important. If you buy an EV you buy it because you want to and it suits your lifestyle you can then and only if you want to allow your charger to sell power to the grid. The difference is with solar feedback you enter into an agreement for a certain period of time at a certain price. If people are unhappy with what they get paid for EV to the grid then they don't allow it.

Can you see the difference?

The study I posted a link to pointed out pros and cons and technical challenges. I am glad that there are plenty of scientist engineers and investors who are innovative and who propose and test new ideas. There is no other time in history that I would have prefered to live.

Anyway, I suspect that you are not necessarily interested in the details.
 

spacesailor

Well-Known Member
True, I didn't take the time to read it, as I will never afford a new car, of any caliber, at my age a new car would be a complete waste as THEY will take my licence
off me for being haggard (aged).
I will read it at a later date. (saved address to notepad )
spacesailor
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
Space, I'm like you as far as an electric car goes but I do have an $800 electric bike and a mate of mine has a mobility scooter.
The bike battery is 36 volts and 10 amp-hours, so it stores 360 Watt-hours or .36KWh which is about 10 cents worth.
I recommend you try an electric bike, I reckon its great... like going a bit downhill when it suits you. I haven't tried the scooter yet, my mate says it has freed him from being dependent on the wife and he really likes it. I still have my driving license but the 10 tonne endorsement was going to cost money for a special medical so it was not renewed. The big tractor here doesn't seem to mind at all.

The bike battery would keep the fridge cold for half the day as long as you didn't open it too much. Not worth connecting to the grid though.

A steam-driven generator would return some money if connected to the grid with the right agreement, but it would not be able to pay the minimum wage for an attendant. And that's with free wood to fire the boiler.
 
Bruce.
Yes the mobility scooter is a god send, But only if you don't need any exercise, which of course means, Leave the dam thing in the shed, & don't buy batteries for it. LoL.
Same goes for the pushy with a little "power-pack" on the rear wheel. Thousands in the fifties.
They all fell short of getting you home in the pouring rain ( nine times out of ten ) when needed the most.
Murphy's law I believe. You have a need, & up pops Murphy.
I was offered electric bikes at $100 a pop, but had no way to transport them, straight off the boat, so must be cheap in China.
spacesailor
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
It is only recently that electric push-bikes dropped below 2 or 3 thousand as advertised around here. This Sydney friend who is looking to buy one was told by an "expert" that you need to spend $3,000 to get a decent one. Of course, we rural people think everybody who lives in Sydney is rich.
So you should have bought a job lot at $100. Gosh 400 bikes with $2500 profit each would make anyone a millionaire...
 
BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.
Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI
And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.
Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.
All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.
I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.
spacesailor
Smart meters are only smart for the energy supplier as they have determined what the software does and that is to benefit themselves. Distributed supply is coming and is being developed all around the world including some large companies such as Siemens. Closer to home Paladin Energy in NZ have produced a solar power controller that monitors the mains power in and out 3700 times a second and diverts solar produced power to the water heater. This effectively stores energy as hot water so your water heater becomes a battery. It can also divert power to heat the pool, charge batteries & the EV etc so you benefit dramatically rather than send it back via the so called smart meter to the energy company who will pay you a pittance like 6 or 7 cents a kWh & then sell it back to you at 38 cents a kWh during peak times.

In a distributed system every individual with solar panels (& batteries) becomes an energy supplier as well as a customer. During the day when demand is low the batteries are charged, water is heated etc. At night if you have excess power then that goes into the system and may be bought by your neighbour. This can all be coupled with huge wind, solar, pumped hydro, battery farms and other renewable energy systems to ensure 100% renewable energy supply and use. It is just simple and effective use of well designed energy management software.
 
Who will own this " Distributed supply".
I have a contract with My power supplier who owns the equipment that meter's my usage, I don't think they would like someone else's meter replacing theirs.
Perhaps I could buy my own electricity meter from Ebay, & put in my tariff, 8 cents LoL
Gas water heater, gas cooker & no pool to heat. Plus no Fixed solar panels, yet
spacesailor
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
I don't understand, old K.
If I could go off the grid, then there that be real independence (unless they could charge you "supply charge" for the fact that their poles go near your house )
 
Sounds like
Perpetual motion,
On the grid charges car, add solar, off grid, car charges grid !.
Or have I missed something
spacesailor
Not perpetual motion, Spacey. Your battery is helping to solve the main problem of renewable energy: variations in supply. Plug your car into the grid while you're not using it. If there's a surplus of renewable energy available, it can charge up your car's battery. When demand exceeds supply your battery (and thousands of others) feeds power back in.

Modern electronics should allow you to take control of how much your battery will give back, and at what price. The electricity market has been revolutionised by technology like SA's Tesla battery bank which Instantly plugs gaps in power supply until other sources get on line.
 
I don't understand, old K.
If I could go off the grid, then there that be real independence (unless they could charge you "supply charge" for the fact that their poles go near your house )
If you go off grid you're out of the game- independent. If you stay on the grid you can earn money from feeding in power, but they will charge you for the convenience it brings.
 

octave

Well-Known Member
Sounds like
Perpetual motion,
On the grid charges car, add solar, off grid, car charges grid !.
Flat batteries can't recharge solely by solar.
Or have I missed something
spacesailor
What your missing is this, you don't charge your car during peak cost time (typically early evening when people are cooking dinner etc.) During this time the generators charge retailers huge prices (it is like any other market, supply and demand) The generators also have to have the capacity available for these peeks and this feeds into our bills. It is nothing to do with getting energy from nowhere Your car has power available as your trip to and from work has lets say only half discharged your car. If you decide you are not making any trips for the rest of the evening and of course you are not going to charge it until the early hours WHEN OFF PEAK Electricity is CHEAPER you sell the grid some of the power from your batteries when prices are high and you replenish it with cheap off-peak power.

This is already being trialled in Europe and the US At this stage, it is mainly business, large fleet operators etc.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-m...d-v2g-turn-your-fleet-into-a-revenue-generato


https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/ne...-business-fleet-focused-vehicle-to-grid-trial

Basically, it is selling something at a high price and buying it back later when the price is lower. If the price paid by the power company is too low no one will sell
 
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