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Phil Perry

The climate change debate continues.

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Interesting pie chart. I note that even though his primary field of expertise is water usage and ecology (not climate or weather sciences), he still indicates that 'climate change' has crossed the boundary, and:

 

"Crossing these boundaries increases the risk of generating large-scale abrupt or irreversible environmental changes"

 

So he does see climate change as an increasing danger. True, he sees biodiversity as a far greater risk, but that is what he has been studying, so he would probably have a more intimate knowledge of that important branch of science.

 

He also totally neglects any mention of the massive risk posed by overpopulation which greatly increases all risks to pleasant life on earth.

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8 hours ago, willedoo said:

No I don't Octave. I was commenting on the only options I could see possible if what the previous poster said about the capitalist/socialist thing was true. I don't personally believe it's true.

 

As you say " Equating emission controls with some sort of socialist plot seems pretty whacky to me. ". It seems pretty wacky to me as well. Is it possible you might have misinterpreted the context of my post?

Sorry quoted the wrong the post !

 

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5 hours ago, octave said:

Sorry quoted the wrong the post !

 

No worries, Octave. I thought that might have been the case.

Edited by willedoo
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" If the weight of the evidence contradicts the theory then I will happily  abandon it. "

Careful:

The "wooly Mammoth" died out due to global warming, SO SAY the scientist.

A bit before the industrial revolution of Humans, I believe.

Snowball Earth has been thawing for many millions of years,

When Humans hadn't reached the Iron age !.

spacesailor

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14 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I read in a this morning's paper that couples are voluntarily removing themselves from the gene pool because of fears about global warming. And I read last week that primary school children don’t expect to see adulthood. Doesn’t anyone else see how whacky this is? Even if you believe the alarmist consensus totally, climate change is a risk much less than overpopulation, species extinction and urban spread. These are things we can do something about to greatly improve the future.

 That's a worry, PM. Kids need hope. I agree it sounds alarmist, but there were similar levels of fear during the Mutually Assured Destruction era of the Cold War.

The best news is that today's kids are doing something about it.

 

Which issue is the greater threat? They're all interrelated. The rate at which we are destroying species and whole ecosystems is unprecedented in human history. Our kind won't be far behind.

 

We didn't learn from the wisdom of  Chief Seattle:

Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. 

Man did not weave the web of life: he is merely a strand in it. 

Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself...

 

The whites too shall pass; perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed, and you will one night suffocate in your own waste.

But in your perishing you will shine brightly...

 

 

 

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The things that were being asked for were these

 

1. No new coal, oil and gas projects,

2. 100% renewable energy generation and exports by 2030.

3. Fund a just transition and job creation for all fossil-fuel workers and communities.

 

Seems pretty reasonable to me, I did not hear anything about to complete dismantling of the modern world  as the "alarmists" claim.

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SHANGHAI (REUTERS) - China's total planned coal-fired power projects now stand at 226.2 gigawatts (GW), the highest in the world and more than twice the amount of new capacity on the books in India, according to data published by environmental groups on Thursday (Sept 19).

The projects approved by China amount to nearly 40 per cent of the world's total planned coal-fired power plants, according to the Global Coal Exit List database run by German environmental organisation Urgewald and 30 other partner organisations.

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1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

SHANGHAI (REUTERS) - China's total planned coal-fired power projects now stand at 226.2 gigawatts (GW), the highest in the world and more than twice the amount of new capacity on the books in India, according to data published by environmental groups on Thursday (Sept 19).

The projects approved by China amount to nearly 40 per cent of the world's total planned coal-fired power plants, according to the Global Coal Exit List database run by German environmental organisation Urgewald and 30 other partner organisations.

 

China has not stepped away from low carbon energy and continues to develop renewables.  It will be interesting to see if all of the power stations go ahead.   There are many reasons that the Chinese people may not accept more pollution than they already endure.    These future power stations will have to stack up against increasingly efficient and clean technologies.  In a purely economic sense, any investment power stations  (of any kind) must be able to ensure a return for investors over its payback period. 

 

“Beijing said on Tuesday, in a position paper ahead of the UN meeting, that it would remain on ‘the clean energy and low-carbon development path’, but stopped short of setting new targets,” Reuters says. “China has cut the share of coal in its total energy mix from more than 68% in 2012 to 59% by the end of last year, but overall consumption has continued to increase,” with 1,020 GW of installed capacity as of late July.

 

https://theenergymix.com/2019/09/22/china-plans-226-gw-of-new-coal-plants/

 

Compared to our 16% renewable power China has done quite well.

 

Power generation from renewable energy sources reached 1,870 TWh in 2018, an increase of 170 TWh and making up 26.7 percent of the country’s total. Hydro contributed 1,200 TWh (up 3.2 percent), wind – 366 TWh (up 20 percent), PV – 177.5 TWh (up 50 percent) and biomass – 90.6 TWh (up 14 percent). 

 

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2019/03/06/chinas-renewable-energy-installed-capacity-grew-12-percent-across-all-sources-in-2018/#gref

 

 

 

Peter you started out by saying the science is rubbish then you questioned the motives of the scientists suggesting that it was some kind of plot to bring down capitalism (although it is never explained why)  and now you have moved on to  subtly suggest that what we do is irrelevant so lets just keep burning fossil fuels.

 

Because an extremely large country is only making slow progress but yet is still trying does not mean we should abandon the move away from the older methods of generating power.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 The Farmers Federation have gone all socialist too.? The sky is falling in chicken little. It's about making money from obsolete concepts that muck up  the environment. Liberals we once environmentalists too. Now it's politicised, but never had to be. Nev

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Octave I fully support moving to renewables as it becomes possible without disadvantaging the developing countries in Asia and Africa etc ( though developing countries is a bit of a misnomer these days). Or destroying western economies. But I disagree with frightening young children and young adults with misinformation to achieve a political outcome. And I guess I believe in capitalism and abhor socialism because of the historical precedents.

 

As I have found elsewhere, the thinking on a chat site gets polarised one way or the other, with the minority view leaving as has happened here. On other forums I find my views in the great majority. It doesn’t mean I am right or you are right, the minority have just voted with their feet. The right answer must be supported with facts.

 

Once a forum has polarised, posting facts just brings denial or counter-argument. I persevere here because the debate remains rational and polite. I will try to post facts rather than opinions from now on, like I just did with the post about China. I have a lot of facts to hand!

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COAL.

At the time of the industrial revolution COAL, would have been a "godsend", to the forest of the world

Steam ships burning tons of wood daily, trains power-stations ETC, All burning wood. The world would be like that island (Easter Island (Rapa Nui: Rapa Nui).

Not a tree standing.

When it's all gone, And COAL is but a memory MEMORY,. Our debates will seem a little Over the top !.

spacesailor

 

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